Homebrew Adventure Day#29 – An Interview with Shane Welch of Sixpoint Craft Ales

Shane of Sixpoint Craft Ales

Photo Courtesy of The Full Pint

New York (specifically Red Hook, Brooklyn) is lucky enough to house Sixpoint Craft Ales, a brewery with a full line of interesting and tasty craft beer output.

Shane Welch is brewmaster, founder, president, and owner of Sixpoint and was nice enough to answer some questions that I have come up with in order to gather information to hopefully help me in my homebrew journey.  Check out this amazing glimpse into the mind of a master brewer:

1. What was your first beer experience?

Oh man…I think I may have had the earliest start of any craft brewer….you see, I have been drinking beer ever since I was 2 years old. Back in the early 80s my father used to drink Meister Brau. Here’s a little walk down memory lane.

Anyway, my father would sometimes leave a little bit of beer left in his ceramic stein, and after he had fallen asleep, I would grab the oversized stein with my two little hands and hoist that thing up over my head and chug the rest. Crazy thing is I remember enjoying the taste of beer ever since I was a kid. Something magical about the sweetness of the malt and spiciness and bitterness of the hops. My parents were shocked – and amused – by the entire ordeal so they took a photo of me. I’ll try to track it down and send it to you.

2. What/who inspired you to start brewing?

Its literature, language, art and poetry that is my weakness. Therefore, it was the indelible and captivating “The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing” by Charlie Papazian and its zany humor, hand-drawn images, and do-it-yourself vibe that had me hooked. Keep in mind that in college, I was a hippie nerd, so the combination of science, chemistry, and making your own beer was right up my alley. Combine that with a fun, informative style and approach, and I was hooked.

3. What is your favorite beer to brew and why? What is your favorite beer to drink (both your own creations and from other breweries as well) and why?

My favorite beer to brew is homebrew. The reason why is because the scale is so much smaller (5-10 gallons versus the typical 500 gallons in Red Hook, Brooklyn) you’re that much more up-close-and-personal with the beer. Everything is smaller – the amount of grain, water, and hops – the size of the kettles, fermenters, etc. And your yield is lower too – so every bottle is precious. I like that feeling of cranking out a small, custom batch…nothing tops it!

Favorite beer from our brewery to drink? That’s really hard because it literally changes every week or month. But recently the Bengali Tiger has been tasting the best it has ever tasted. But, if you would have asked me two months ago, I would have said the Righteous Ale.

As far as beer from other breweries go….oh man, there are SO MANY to drink, and so many good beers. What a great industry. We’re surrounded by all of these amazing colleagues (who in theory, are our competitors too) but they make such great products you just can’t refuse them. For some reason lately I have been obsessed with Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. There has been anywhere from one to twelve bottles of it in my refrigerator at all times in the past 3 months. It hits the spot every time!

4. What is your favorite beer event to attend, and why?

Best feel-good event that represents what the craft brewing industry is all about? Without a doubt, the Great Taste of the Midwest.

Best up-and-coming beer event to showcase the creative and renegade side of craft beer? Without a doubt – the Extreme Beer Fest put on by Beer Advocate.

Best global revelry and largest beer party in the world? Hands down – Oktoberfest in Munich. No one even comes close.

5. Have you taken any courses for brewing or beer tasting? What are your thoughts on courses for brewing and tasting- are they helpful or unneccessary?

Although I have no formal courses taken in beer brewing, I am BJCP certified and have extensive chemistry and physics background at UW-Madison, and I was also a math major. Without this solid foundation of knowledge and education, some of the brewing processes would be hard to grasp. However, I do want to emphasize my core competencies rest in the more theoretic fields – and that is why I loved chemistry so much – but people like David Liatti (our Operations Manager) is the more practical engineer.

As far as beer courses for brewing and tasting – they are not necessary, but a knowledge of science and the components of beer are necessary. In other words, you don’t need to go the academic route, but you must have a basic understanding of the causal relationships that take place during the brewing process, for that is how you troubleshoot and problem solve when issues arise. The more advanced your knowledge base is, the better your troubleshooting skills will be.

6. What advice do you have for homebrewers looking to get into the professional field of brewing?

Homebrew your ass off, pound the pavement, press the flesh, and keep the faith.

7. Do you still homebrew? If so, what are you currently brewing or what was your latest creation?

I do homebrew. But I’ve become a bit of a recluse with it sometimes because I like a clean, sterile, and quiet environment without distractions when I homebrew. Its really meditative for me. I can’t stand a soiled or dirty environment, or one where someone is interrupting me every few minutes. I like to immerse myself in the beer. Figuratively, of course. 🙂

I’ve also been teaching people how to homebrew lately. A few weeks back, I taught my good friend and executive chef at Prime Meats/Frankies Spuntino Willy Prunty how to make some beer. His knowledge base was already super solid, but we took it to another level. Its a great way to spend a Sunday afternoon!
8. What has been your hardest challenge with the creation and continued success of Sixpoint? What has been your greatest success/ defining moment with the creation and continued success of Sixpoint?

The creation side has been rather easy…as the creative juices and spirit has always flowed freely with me. Regarding “continued success” I would say that is a subjective critique! But thanks for thinking so. But we have a long way to go…and that is where the struggle comes in. I’d like to see us making better beer, with stronger ties to our community and customers, and better customer service. I also would like better communication within the company…tighter controls…more efficiency. So many things to do! That is the key…to never get lazy or content. Stay fit! 🙂

Greatest success or defining moment? I’d like to thing the chapter on that has not yet been written! But I’d have to say – above all else – is the innumerable amazing relationship I’ve been able to forge as a result of starting Sixpoint. I’ve met so many helpful, thoughtful, kind, talented, fun, and appreciative people through this business…I’m eternally grateful. I feel blessed.

Sixpoint Brews

9. Tell us your most fun beer story.

Before I started the brewery, I was living on my friend Aaron’s couch for a few months while I homebrewed every single day. I had turned his kitchen into a bona fide mini brewery. He lived on the second floor of a two-unit flat. On the ground floor was a dude named Pat, who was a 40 year-old “retired poet” who was very idiosyncratic. Anyways, he apparently had moved in several months before but still had his stuff packed in boxes.

I started brewing and one day there was a knock at the door. It’s Pat. He said, “what are you doing up here? Its smells like you’re making candy.” I said, “Don’t worry. Just making beer. That’s the malt – it smells sweet.” Pat then replies, “Uh……ok. It sounds dangerous…..” I said, “Nah…I’ve done it hundreds of times. Its easy.”

Flash forward a few days, and I’m making a batch of American Amber on the stovetop. Then, I get a phone call. The reception is poor, so I go out onto the balcony. I’m talking to my friend, and then I hear a knocking at the door – its Pat! Uh-oh. Apparently there is a RIVER OF BEER coming through the ceiling and dripping onto his book in the living room.

I rush to the kitchen to find out I had a boil over. Shit! Yep, it ran down the side of the kettle, and all over the stove, and then down the gas line through the linoleum floor. It goes through the floor and comes out the ceiling below and is streaming all over Pat’s books, still freshly packed in cardboard boxes. What a sight….a river of hot brown beer coming through the ceiling!

Just like Poltergeist. Haha.

10. What is your take on the craft beer community? What is your favorite thing about it? What could stand for some improvement?

The craft beer community is awesome, and it is probably my single favorite thing about the entire industry. Interestingly, its not just the community of brewers….not even close. Its the community of craft beer drinkers, craft beer bar owners, craft beer writers, craft beer bloggers, craft beer distributors, and craft beer website owners. Its a gigantic and ever expanding craft beer universe! 🙂

My favorite thing about it is it is so different from other industries….like take, for example, Wall Street. There is less of a “every man for himself” and “dog eat dog” mentality and more of a mentality of “a rising tide lifts all boats” and cooperation.

As far as improving the industry…I would say there could possibly be some regional centers within the Brewer’s Association…since the country is so large. I think every major city should have a craft beer week…and it would be nice to get some sponsorship and support from an organized source. If the Brewer’s Association really threw their weight behind a coordinated effort to get all 50 states rocking craft beer, the sky is the limit! 🙂

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Shane has that refreshing a relate-able style that we see with a lot of brewmasters, and that is what I love so much about this industry.  There is competition, for sure, but brewers are constantly encouraging others to join in the game and get to brewing- the passion is everywhere, and it certainly is contagious.

With that, I say to you, go out there and talk to your local brewers.  Hopefully, (and I have a hunch they will be,) they’ll be as insightful, smart, experienced and willing to chat as Shane was.

Cider- the “New” Artisan Beverage Superstar- An Interview with Joe Heron of Crispin Cider

The Crispin Tap Handle

As a part of my research for becoming a homebrewing genius, I decided to send out interview questions to people behind my favorite breweries- hoping their answers would give me insight into the world of brewing and tips for how to avoid impending disaster.

Included in this list was a man named Joe Heron- Founder and CEO of Crispin Cider.  While cider may not be craft beer, it IS an artisan beverage that I tend to enjoy.  I had the pleasure of trying a bunch of Crispin wares (as well as ciders from Fox Barrel, another cider company that Joe runs) and I’ve been hooked ever since.

The following is a cut and paste insert of Joe’s answers to my questions about Cider and the beverage industry in general.  Cheers!

1. What was your first cider experience?

Probably as a teenager in South Africa. Cider then, was what you drank if you didn’t like the taste of alcohol too much. And even then it was pretty much a “sweet-beer”, for people who didn’t like beer. South Africa has changed a lot since then with some fine ciders coming out of that country.

2. What inspired you to get into making cider?

The “dirty little secret” is this; I did not enjoy cider very much when Lesley & I started Crispin. So my involvement initially was purely entrepreneurial. Cider as a category was exploding worldwide. The cider over ice phenomenon had not yet hit the US in a meaningful way, and it is pretty common knowledge that much of the beer industry turns on a serving ritual (Corona with a lime, Blue Moon & an orange slice, Stella Artois’ focus on it’s Belgian chalice) so that was interesting. It was apparent that that market trajectory was not shared yet in the US. We also looked at data that showed that cider represented less than 1% of the US beer market, Vs +/-5% in most countries around the world, in the UK & Ireland it is around 15% (and growing rapidly) – so the commercial runway seemed very long. In our opinion the cider category had stagnated innovation, taste-profile and image wise. Ciders being mainly positioned as beer-alternatives for people who didn’t really like beer – rather than a standalone proud refreshment option. A little old-fashioned in imagery. That most large cider brands available were made using apple-wine fermented from apple-juice concentrate seemed totally contrary to cider integrity. We set out to make ciders that we would enjoy – dryer, a little more sophisticated. Ciders that would attract cider & NON-cider drinkers. Cider made with fresh pressed apple juice.

3. What is your favorite cider to brew and why? What is your favorite cider to drink (both your own creations and from other cideries as well) and why?

I don’t have any “favorite children”. But ….. our Artisanal Reserve unfiltered cloudy ciders are very boundary breaking. They are challenging to make in terms of mastering alternative ale yeasts, smoothing with natural sugars, and then maintaining product integrity with unfiltered apple-wine sediment/lees left in the bottle. These are truly “American” ciders. I find Crispin Original on draught sublime – full & rounded without being sweet, refreshing enough to drink a few. I love Crispin Honey Crisp, especially with food. Fox Barrel Pear is the easiest cider to drink in the world, in my humble opinion. Truthfully I like all our ciders at different times. We also do very, very small Limited Editions, usually ciders aged in wooden barrels that we are very proud of. Bonnie & Clyde is just great conceptually (true love can be dangerous) and intrinsically (heirloom apple-wine aged in Chardonnay barrels). We have many more coming out, some quite soon.

I like Farnum Hill a lot. I think Doc’s is very good too. Eve’s Cidery “champagne” ciders are lovely.

Final point – cider is not beer, and it is not “cider-beer”. Cider at it’s truest form is apple-wine. Cider is vinted like grape-wine in a cidery, an “applewinery” not a brewery. Cider is not “brewed”. And cider is alcoholic, everything else is apple-juice.

4. What is your favorite beverage event to attend, and why?

I really prefer events in good bars Vs giant beer-fests. I love talking to the bar owners, bar-tenders, and patrons on a personal level. There is a unique face and personality to every bar. The Firkin Fest at The Happy Gnome in St Paul is great, we have had Bonnie & Clyde events at Papago in Phoenix, Beer Bistro in Chicago, Matt Torrey’s in Brooklyn, to name a few. Max’s in Baltimore is a great bar who hosted us alongside Victory & Harpoon during American Craft Beer Week. I am really looking forward to some events in Rattle & Hum & The Blind Tiger, amongst others in NYC. Cider dinners pairing our ciders with appropriate food styles is enormous fun. We hosted a “Ciders & Sliders” dinner a short while ago – where all our ciders were paired with 6 slider “burger” courses from appetizer through dessert. Brilliant, delicious, fun.

5. What upcoming new cider styles should we look out for?

I think the first thing that is going to happen is a flood of standard, typical ciders coming to the market to try and gain a foothold in a fast-growing, yet undeveloped market. Fruit ciders, in particular Pear, will also gain currency as a more natural, tradeup, easy to drink refreshment option. At this moment in time Crispin is the only cider company really stretching the boundaries of cider styles. We work with novel yeasts, natural sugar sources, and barrel aging all the time. This is what makes us feel alive, and what makes us come alive.

Honey Crisp Cider

6. Do you like craft beer? If so, what’s your favorite craft beer and why?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. I think Victory Prima Pils is a work of art. I think people underestimate how hard it is to make an exceptional Pilsner. There is no place to hide in terms of malt, hops and ABV. Mike Lundell’s limited release India Style Rye Ale, part of St Paul’s Summit Brewing’s Unchained Series – is inspired. Truthfully I am a bit of a wuss with some of the more aggressive craft styles, I lose my ability to talk after more than one West Coast IPA – my tongue seems to become paralyzed. I need a knife and fork to drink some of Sam’s Dogfish Head beers.

7. Do you think there is an easy cross-over from craft beer drinkers to cider lovers? Which cross-over is easier: craft beer to cider or craft beer to wine?

Absolutely. There is a cross-over. Craft beer drinkers are open-minded imbibers. However craft beer drinkers are discerning and demanding. The selection is vast, and the drinker is promiscuous. The rational data shows that craft beer drinkers are twice as likely to drink cider as the general beer population. I believe that craft-beer drinkers drink craft beer instead of wine in the main, especially the core consumer. I think that cider is more part of a craft beer drinker’s repertoire than wine is.

8. What has been your hardest challenge with the creation and continued success of Crispin? What has been your greatest success/ defining moment with the creation and continued success of Crispin?

Ok. The greatest challenge we face is the category itself. It’s perception of being sweet-beer than can give you heartburn. The fact that we, as a start-up cider company, have to do most of the category heavy lifting to help elevate cider is also challenging. We also have a problem with developing cider evangelists. Perhaps this has been because there was nothing to evangelize about. But the craft beer universe is being built on the momentum of people who like beer, on the brewer as “rock-star” cult status, and a sheer open-minded embrace of experimentation and enjoyment. The cider-geek is a conservative ubertraditionalist to the point of Talibanesque dogma. A dogma that has resulted in American’s drinking more non-alcoholic beer than cider.

We at Crispin are far more inspired by Jim Koch, Ken Grossman, Greg Koch, Sam Calgione, Mark Stutrud & Bill Covaleski, than anyone in the cider fraternity. (To call the cider industry fraternal might be moot). We have no one of their stature in our industry.

Then, like every small company in this industry, distribution is challenging. Some distributors can really hurt you through indifference to the point of obstruction. We are fortunate to have a lot truly exceptional wholesalers, who are great people, and love us and our products – they are far the majority. The minority – some of whom are very large, are our biggest commercial challenge. That the Great American Beer Festival excludes cider might be an indication of how low in esteem the category is held in America.

Our greatest success has been the embrace of all our products by consumers and customers in 24 states and counting. I do believe that the launch of our Artisanal unfiltered Reserves started to define our creative personality, which led to the Limited Releases. In the industry, our acquisition of the Fox Barrel Cider Company and the cidery gave us the stature and credentials to be taken seriously.

We are not a company short of self-confidence, but we owe a few wholesalers our self-belief. Without them things would be very different.

We have a pocket full of Crispinite. It’s powerful stuff.

9. Tell us your most fun cider story.

The most fun I have in cider is having someone say. “I’m not really a ciderdrinker” – so 99% of beer drinkers, and then they go “wow that’s really good, different, delicious not sweet, I’ll have a little more, mmm, ok give me a glass”.

The Saint - Brewed with Belgian Yeast and Maple Syrup

10. What is your take on the craft beverage community (beer, wine, alcohol, cider, mead, etc.)? What is your favorite thing about it? What could stand for some improvement?

Without getting in to multiple cliché’s-I love the sheer exuberance and confidence of the craft beer industry. I honestly think it illustrates everything great about America. It illustrates the values, attitudes and spirit that, through these trying times, the USA will end up being okay.

I am envious of the camaraderie in the craft beer fraternity, from the brewer side to the consumer side. People are supportive and embrace a collaborative, creative ethos that combined with competitive spirit is driving the growth of the category overall. We make the best beer in the world. I would challenge any one to counter that argument. (We also make the best cider in the world now.)

I am not informed enough about Mead to comment. But I am intrigued.

I love wine. And my personal tips are South African Chenin-Blanc, Australian Dry Riesling, Gimblett Gravells – New Zealand Syrah, Grenache/Garnacha from anywhere.

I am very interested in artisanal spirits. This is nascent in market development terms, but there is some cool stuff happening, often from craft brewers. I would love to develop something in this space. Frankly I think the relationship between craft beer drinkers and craft distilled spirits may be closer than craft beer is to wine.

I think the biggest challenge the craft beer industry faces is the sheer promiscuity of the core consumer. The consumer is faced with such a barrage of (interesting) alternatives in flavors, formats and from excellent breweries, that consumer loyalty is possibly dead. I find the domination of seasonal varieties alarming – when Seasonals are the top sellers the head is starting to eat the tail. IMHO.

I am not a craft-brewer. And my status is such that my opinion carries little weight. From my individual seat and opinion, I wonder which is more important to craft brewers now – complexity Vs refreshment, and I wonder how the consumer feels about this? And how many IPA’s can possibly be sustained?